Schbang is positioned as a creative + media + technology transformation partner – how do you split these three offerings and how much would each contribute to your revenue? 

We have some clients that work with us for all three offerings. Some work with us only on one of the offerings and some work on any two of our offerings. We split our client portfolio in that way. We run these three offerings as separate businesses and so they have to be excellent by themselves. Only then will the whole piece come together. We organise our teams to be able to have consistency to drive integration for our clients.

About 10% of our client base, which is roughly 50, would take all three offerings. Another 20% opt for two offerings. The balance 70% would be for one offering. 

In terms of growth, we’ve seen the likes of WPP’s creative offerings grow slower than the media space. Is that what we’re seeing with Schbang too?

No, creative is growing the fastest for us and that’s because our reputation comes from it. We’re working on building strong depth in media. The deep-end partnership with all the publishers, and the deep-end tech skills, help us have a framework for delivering and unlocking growth in the media space. 

The other legacy media companies work well because they can consistently unlock growth for clients. That’s a framework we are working on and we have delivered some pieces of work. The priority is to bring that to market and showcase it. 

We have to also work like a tech company and our focus is on implementation. The way we see ourselves is that we have the whole stack of ad tech, martech, and asset (a website or app), and we have a fairly good deployment of each. We have deep partnerships with the likes of Adobe and Salesforce. Under tech, we also have sub-classifications like marketing automation, deployment of data-led CRM, and the development of websites and products.

The other interesting bit we’re seeing is that there’s interest from companies that are ready to scale. There, we follow a consultancy model and have a couple of interesting people leading the practice. One of them is a PHD from IIM Indore.We are helping with the growth of retailers, distributors, listing on e-commerce etc. So we’re playing a business hat rather than a creative agency hat.

These clients are of two types – either in the INR 80-100 crore bracket and looking to grow by pivoting their business, or the INR 0-1 crore, who are just starting up. We build the material for those looking to raise funds so that there’s a sharp deck for them to showcase to investors.

Have you ever considered creating that deck and selling Schbang? Any interesting offers that have come your way?

No. There have been offers, but we haven’t got into a deep conversation. The window (for growth) is quite long for India. For the next 15-20 years, we’re going to see continuous growth. I enjoy doing what I’m doing. The process of building a systems-driven company will be challenging, but fun. 

Coming back to your point on your different offerings under Schbang - are clients looking to consolidate offerings under one agency now? For example, along with the creatives, you could offer performance marketing too, for clients. Or are they still looking at specialists?

Clients are looking to tie the two together so that the messaging is tight. I don’t think I’m confident enough right now to say that we’re way better to work with on the creative and media front together than the client working with two different agencies. What we are trying to work on is building depth inside each vertical so that we are more attractive for clients to have fewer partners. We are seeing that there are two classifications of clients – one would be the extremely high spenders. They’ll go to a specialist media agency. But the clients that are spending between INR 10-15 crore on their media, would unlock better synergies by working with a partner like us. 

So those would be typically start-ups looking to leverage digital or are you looking at traditional media too?

A little bit of traditional media work is being done too. We’ve worked with a brand on cinema. Organic visits to the website increased from 500 visits to 7,000 visits a day. We’re not strictly speaking digital because the media environment isn’t strictly digital. But most of our client’s consumers are digital-first. So we do our bit of TV buying also around it. We have those capabilities and are building them further.

We’re seeing the likes of Dept, who recently entered India, going and acquiring companies that specialise in Adobe and Salesforce. Is that something you’re looking at?

No. We’re not doing that. 

You’ve currently got offices in India, UAE, the UK, and the Netherlands. How have the London and Amsterdam operations worked for you? 

We have some bit of work happening in the UAE, but we don’t have an office there. London is a challenge. Martin Vinter, who was part of the founding team, has moved on. We’ve replaced him with two people. One of them has worked in India for 11 years, although she was born and brought up in Great Britain. She worked with Wieden+Kennedy Delhi and Havas in India. She understands the system of India and is a natural fit. 

Viren Chhabria is heading brand solutions. He was a strong performer in our Mumbai office and went for a course to Warwick. He wanted to stay back there and he was also a natural fit for us. He’s very strong with tech, so our tech business in the UK is quite strong. We get contracts to build apps, websites, and marketing automation. We’re also helping give birth to new brands. We have an anchor client with Amazon Prime Video. Through the UK office, we have a multi-country deal with them and that’s a good reason to be in the market. We’re in discussions with more MNCs operating out of the UK for multi-country deals.

My summary of the UK is that it’s not delivered yet, but is on the verge of delivering. 

And Amsterdam?

We have become the largest shareholder in one of the hottest design shops there. We have an announcement on that coming soon. The kind of clients who are finding us attractive are those who are investing more in emerging markets but are headquartered in Europe. 

A recent announcement was one with Masoom Minawala in the influencer marketing space. That’s a space that is booming. How has the industry responded to it?

The report card is that it’s good, it’s profitable and well-oiled. We work with eight influencers currently. We are figuring out what to do as the next step and have our annual planning meeting with Masoom. We both are actively involved in this and have managed to get inroads and carve out a niche in the space of luxury, lifestyle, and beauty. 

Now we are slowly expanding from there. We are also speaking with Bollywood stars on how significant value can be added to them using data and digital. We’ll be handling their digital presence. A lot of talent in any case is now non-exclusive. Now, for example, the electric bike space is booming. So, it’s about taking the face of a big name, a star who has an audience who is interested in the category to link deals like these.

What’s your view on the future of influencer marketing? A recent Meta talk stated that nano-influencers are the way forward. Do you agree with this?

There’s more space now for the nano-influencers too. I don’t think we’re moving away from the big guys though. I can see their billings and they’re only growing so I don’t see sentiment moving away from them. Those with a million plus followers are only increasing in size. As more brands enter the market, these influencers become a natural fit for the big brands. 

But as these influencers take on more brand assignments, do you see their credibility dip?

Influencers are becoming more cautious, to make sure authenticity in the partnership is well integrated. If I take Ranveer Allahbadia as an example. His deal with Mountain Dew on the podcast fits perfectly with the brand’s philosophy of ‘dar ke aage jeet hai’. His personality is that he doesn’t hesitate and this integration in his podcast makes a lot of sense. 

Recently, the agency was in the news for the Poonam Pandey ‘death incident’, which caused backlash and also meant the agency lost its partnership with MSD. While you’ve issued statements about this – how has the agency dealt with it internally?

We have recognised that it was a mistake. We are working to build a process where there’s more consensus on ideas where a client is not involved. When a client is not involved, what happens is that the voice of reason gets lost because of passion. So, when there’s no client involved, or when the client is giving  you leeway, there’s a bigger onus to have a committee looking at that work. 

We have to put a system where ideas have to get filtered and that’s what we are working on. Which idea goes to the committee and which doesn’t is where the efficiency will come in. Our systems are being rebuilt so that we have visibility on every idea. This will also enable us to do better work because the leadership team can lift every idea. 

After this incident, we have heard remarks like the agency has grown way too fast and other loose comments. What’s your take?

I’m proud of the fact that we’ve grown too fast. We will continue to grow fast. There’s depth being added through hires and elevations as we speak.

Were there any sackings because of this incident? And do you think it’s all good at Schbang after the incident?

No sackings, but it’s not all good. It’s a scar and a heavy loss to lose such a big client. 

When it comes to new businesses, are you getting invited to the same number of pitches as earlier? 

Touch wood with God’s grace we’re being invited. There’s work to be done, but we’re not down or out. We will continue to fight and continue to grow. 

Talent – your recent CCO hire comes from Google. What makes Schbang attractive to talent from a tech company like Google?

Growth. It’s taken us eight years to reach 1,200 people. In the next eight years, we want to have 5,000 people. We’ll get there and we have a clear growth strategy. Exciting growing companies will attract exciting growing talent. 

Would the layoffs at the tech companies also make people insecure and make advertising an attractive career option again?

Let’s call a spade a spade. The money is slightly better in non-advertising companies. I preface it slightly better. Those companies don’t even hire employees at junior levels. One service that the advertising industry does to the creative industry as a whole is that it’s a feeder of talent. A lot of talent gets ready at advertising agencies like us. While we have held a lot of talent, some have moved away. 

Most people who have come back into advertising have got a hike to return. We’ve hired a couple of very good people from Meta and Disney+ Hotstar at associate vice president levels. There was a time when layoffs were happening but that phase is now over. If you break the numbers, there won’t be so many people coming back to advertising.

Any challenges you see with the industry?

A couple of opportunities for sure. After the incident we had with the cervical cancer stunt, there was a fair bit of help and support from a body like Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI). It has a committee that can help get work wetted at a price. They’re pretty quick with their response. A lot of the things that the industry body offers are not known well enough. 

There’s also the code of ethics that ASCI has, which we have used to incorporate into the formalised document we created. 

What bodies do and how they can be helped is relatively lesser known. How bodies help can also be deeper. In the UK, we’ve worked with the IPA (Institute of Practioners in Advertising), which is constantly releasing cerebral material for the agencies.

Awards are good and gatherings are good, but the depth is sort of lacking in the industry bodies. 

The other challenge for the industry is that it’s small. There is a space to collectively unlock value – Google is quoting numbers like 3,00,000 new advertisers, and a lot of tier two and three cities opening up. We have to sit with the government and lobby that we can be important partners in India’s growth. Apart from Prasoon Joshi handing over ‘creators awards’, which is very good, we can help be part of the growth of the country. We as a country are at the threshold of a window of 20 years of growth, and that’s an opportunity for us to be a part of it as an industry. 

This article first appeared in the April issue of Manifest, as part of the 'in the news' section.